Natalie: I'm so glad that you are joining us. And this conversation I wanted specifically for the Hub. And you're such a wealth of knowledge that I wanted to have all of these conversations. I'm like, everyone needs to hear these conversations. So I have other ideas for how to share your wealth of knowledge with others. Luna just bit me, but thank you.
Dr. Cassie: I love it. I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you like this.
Natalie: I know. So I just want to go back and kind of introduce you to everybody and how we met and that is because I found you on Instagram last February, and I came in and was able to participate in all your amazing services.
Natalie: One of the topics I want to talk about on top of women's health is your cosmetic acupuncture, because even this morning on a walk with some of my neighbors, we were talking about it and some people were like, “Wait a minute. What is that?” So I'd love for you to just start with, like, introducing yourself and how you got into acupuncture and anything else you want to share about your practice.
Dr. Cassie: Oh, absolutely. Excellent. So I am Dr. Cassie Dominach. You guys can just call me Cassie, Dr. Cassie, anything like that. I have been studying Chinese medicine since 2016 when I started the doctorate program at Pacific College of Health and Science. The road to getting there was a very interesting one, which I love sharing because a lot of people, especially those– I have a lot of colleagues and friends in this industry and in acupuncture and Chinese medicine.
It's not always a straight line how you get there, but that's always the fun part. So, for me, I was born in New Jersey. I lived there my entire life. I got my undergraduate degree in advertising and marketing at a state school in New Jersey.
Natalie: That's cool. I didn't know that.
Dr. Cassie: Yeah, that's, that's where I'm from. That's what I studied. This was back in 2009. So everything that I learned about advertising is really funny now, because it was like print ads and newsletters and six month campaigns. So anyway, that was my background. And I remember studying that and going into that in my undergrad and saying, “Oh, advertising, that would be super easy for me”. Like, I know if it's something that I care about.
I could, you know, get that out to the people who need it. Same thing with marketing. So even at like 17, 18, whatever I was when I started undergrad, I did recognize that about myself.
But instead of doing the traditional kind of route that a lot of my colleagues and friends from home were doing as far as working at PR agencies or ad agencies in New York City, which was just about like a 40 minute train ride from where we grew up. So I decided that I was not going to New York. I didn't want to have that life and I decided to move to California.
Natalie: Yeah, that's very exciting and very interesting. I didn't know that side of your background and I bet the whole, just as you were saying, the idea of moving to New York and doing the marketing and ad agency or PR just sounds like such a… it has such a different feel from moving to California, and deciding to have like a little bit more relaxed environment. And then you decide to go, I mean, I'm assuming you then went into acupuncture.
Dr. Cassie: Yep. So I moved, when I moved out here, I was thinking, I was like, okay, you know, I'll find– I was looking up different, you know, marketing, PR, like that kind of industry when I moved out here. But when I first got here, I was waitressing, bartending, cocktail serving, all the things in the service industry. Which was a little bit like kind of left field.
But at the end of the day, I was like, I moved out here by myself. I had bills to pay. Before we get into a job like that, I’ve just got to be able to make it out here. Which actually was really wonderful because I feel like a lot of the people skills that I have and communication skills came so heavily from working in that industry.
Natalie: Definitely.
Dr. Cassie: So I was doing that for a little bit and I got to a certain point where I was like, okay, like nothing was sounding too exciting. San Diego, I'd say more LA would be more like, bigger opportunity for PR and marketing. Not that we don't have it here.
Natalie: Right.
Dr. Cassie: But I got to. And the point where I was just like, I don't, I don't know what I want to do. And I was like a little bit lost for a bit. And, but what I really loved about San Diego is the wellness industry here, where I noticed it right away. People are outside, they're walking, there's outdoor yoga. There's tons of events for people to connect in wellness, and not to say on the East Coast, you know, there's not as well, but almost overwhelmingly here.
And I really resonated with that. And I was like, okay, at the end of the day, I want to do something that will help people improve their health and live better lives. And I just put that intention out that, you know, I'd find a career and a job in a place where each person that I met, I would make their life better.
And kind of was just sitting with that. I was like, okay. You know, I'm just going to see what comes up for this, put myself out there. And it was within a span of probably honestly, just like two weeks, where I met like, five acupuncturists. And they just kept popping up at one of my waitressing jobs. I get there.
Natalie: You're like, is this supposed to be telling me something?
Dr. Cassie: Yeah. And like, at this point in my life, I can tell when the universe is giving me signs and it was like, you know, a new bartender who was like, Oh, I'm an acupuncture student. Like, let me see your tongue. Like. Let me feel your pulse. I'm going to press on some pressure points. And I'm like, this girl's a little forward, but I like her, ok, going with it.
And then like one after the other, another very good girlfriend of mine who I've stayed so close with, I met her right after she had graduated. So she had just started her own practice, which was cool to hear since finishing the school. I was like one after the other. And I was like, okay. And then I was like, you know what?
I should go look at the school that they all went to that's here in San Diego. And it took me a few weeks to get it together and schedule an appointment and get in there. But I remember looking around, getting there, checking out the campus. They have an onsite clinic, which I got to tour and look at their herbal medicine dispensary and like, see different, like, aspects of it. And I was just looking around and I just had this feeling like, this is going to be it.
Natalie: That's amazing.
Dr. Cassie: It was probably around this time– I was thinking the other day, because I was talking to someone about this and it was probably around July or August that I just, you know, did this in-person tour, learned about the financial aspect of it, the time commitment, all of the things would be.
And I pretty much just went home, had a conference with myself. With big decisions like this. I don't like to always just ask all my friends or even my family, like I need to sit down with myself and be like. How do we feel? What do we think? And then decided to enroll. Like, probably within the next 30 days I was starting my classes.
Natalie: I love that. That's amazing. I love that when all the people popped up and, like, wait a minute, what is happening right now? But it's true about San Diego. And me, I've lived here now about a year and a half, and it is, you could find all kinds of wellness events. I even went to one last night down here at Seaport village. It was a Pilates class at Malibu Farm. And it was just so cool. There were 60 women there doing Pilates and they served little snacks and things afterwards. I'm like, how fun is this? Just a bunch of, you know, women getting together to do Pilates by the water.
Dr. Cassie: Malibu Farm is so cute, and I keep seeing them coming up with more events, like things like this, like wellness, nourishing food movement.
Natalie: I know we might have to collaborate on an event. I could see it already.
Dr. Cassie: Oh, yes.
Natalie: So a little thing at Malibu farm would be fun. What did it look like for you going into the program? Once you decided, did you have prerequisites to do? Were you able to just jump in and learn everything you needed to know there? What did that entail?
Dr. Cassie: Great question. So as far as the application process, I believe applying was not too difficult to do. I had to find some letters of recommendation, pull out my old transcripts. But when I did start with the program, I was, they called it like a preparatory term. So essentially I did have to take a few pre-reqs that I hadn't had in my undergrad.
I think I had to do biology, biochem. There were like– it was like three classes that I had to do as pre-reqs, but they offered them at the school. So at the same time of doing that, I was able to start taking like two or three of their foundational level classes.
Natalie: That's awesome. That's amazing. And then what did it entail? Because I feel like acupuncture is becoming a little bit more familiar and well known. And even I think insurance companies are starting to acknowledge it a little bit more too, which is always. I think they're just starting to acknowledge Pilates, but I think there’s certain chiropractic care.
They're starting to acknowledge acupuncture. So what does that look like once you're in the program? Because people aren't as familiar with, like, well, what does it actually mean to be an acupuncturist and what is it? You know, how is it helpful? What does it do? And It seems like people love it. I absolutely love it. And people are thinking “I should be doing it, but what is it?”
Dr. Cassie: Yeah. So in the program, here in most of the US I would say offers a doctorate for acupuncture and Chinese medicine. Most states have the doctorate. It used to be a master's, but in my understanding over the past 10 years, it's kind of streamlined to just be a doctorate level degree.
And we study acupuncture, we study traditional Chinese medicine. So all of the modalities, which include glass fire cupping, moxibustion, gua sha, Tui Na massage. There's kind of like a blanket of modalities besides just acupuncture, which isn't always the only part of the, you know, treatments that we do.
Natalie: Right.
Dr. Cassie: And there's also herbal medicine. So in the four years we are going over all of those categories. Also, we did have to learn a good amount of Western medicine. I would say it was almost like a 60-40 split, like anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, any like, prescription drug-herb potential interactions. We also did go over how to read and analyze different lab results.
So if clients do bring those into us, which some often do, if they're working with functional medicine doctors, things like that. Yeah. I can look at their labs and anyone on our team can. And also can understand exactly what is happening through a Western medicine lens.
Natalie: And get a bigger picture. A bigger, broader picture and look at things a little bit more in depth, which I think is amazing. And I don't think people understand that part of it or anything that doesn't necessarily come out of Western medicine. The other day I was having a conversation with three people I met recently in my building who were in the healthcare system and I was doing my chemistry homework on the roof and one of them said, “Oh, let me take a look at that.”
And I'm like, oh my gosh. And I said, “Are you having PTSD?” And he kind of chuckled and he said, “Well, what are you studying?”
And I said, “Well, I'm studying to be a naturopathic doctor. I'm taking my prerequisites.”
And he's like, “All three of them. Oh, oh, oh yeah. Cool. Yeah, we're all Western, but we love the…”
I can't remember how he worded it, and I just kind of laughed at myself. I didn't want to get into a full discussion because there is a lot more to it than most people think of like, you know, naturopathic doctor. You might think like, oh, we're prescribing twigs and berries or something. But really we have to go through the whole thing of pharmacology, anatomy, biochemistry, the whole thing.
We have to know how the body functions. But typically we're choosing to look at the root cause and find ways of doing a little bit more of a natural process before implementing anything else.
And so I think that's a really important fact to know about acupuncture, that you have a broader picture of what's going on with the body that you can help it function in its more natural way and form, prior to you know, saying– not that medication or anything similar to that isn't necessary. For me personally, I always choose to go other ways first and then, you know, what else can we add to it if necessary? Would you say that that's about right? In general, about acupuncture?
Dr. Cassie: I would say a lot of people- I mean, I don't blame them. I think the biggest thing with acupuncture is that acupuncture and Chinese medicine, the whole scope of it– it does take a full four years to understand really what is happening within all of the systems of the body, how it's all interconnected.
We really look at the body and health and the world through almost a different lens. So I don't blame people for not understanding what's happening where it's like, you know. I'm like, it is a pretty comprehensive thing.
But when you can learn to interconnect that with Western medicine, because you know, pretty much everyone who's coming in to see us are working with other specialists, you know, naturopathic doctors, functional medicine doctors, you know, their primary care specialists, all the thing, like, you know. We're typically not the only person they're seeing. So being able to, like, explain kind of what we're doing, how we help that, complement that, and know essentially what, for example, what diagnosis correlates with what's going on with them internally, how we would treat that with acupuncture and Chinese medicine.
Natalie: Yeah. So let's give an example. If you don't mind, let's say we could use someone, I suppose, like perimenopausal or menopausal. If that's something that you want, or any other example that you have of someone you're working with, who's also working with another team, another practitioner. Do you, do you mind sharing something, how you would compliment that or support that?
Dr. Cassie: Yeah, so essentially what is happening through a Chinese medicine lens for when you are transitioning into menopause and your body is going through those changes. We look at it in Chinese medicine, essentially, we call it a yin deficiency. And “yin” in Chinese medicine is a principle just like “yang” is, for example, yin, we kind of associate that with like the feminine energy, we associate that with rest, restorative things at nighttime, and its polar opposite is yang.
Which is energy, action, daytime. It's the male energetic system. So as you're transitioning into menopause, naturally within the body, you should– everyone does typically have a good balance of yin and yang. They have to be balanced so that we have good health throughout our entire lives. And there might be times when you're in more of a yang era, like when you're a child and you're quite literally growing and developing so much, you might have a little more yang than yin, but it always has to be balanced.
And so as you are transitioning into menopause, as all of us are, well, and things like that, the amount of yin within your system just starts to naturally kind of decrease a little bit, which is interesting, but it's a part of life. It's what happens to all of us. And so what we do with our acupuncture treatments is we really want to nourish that yin.
So there are different acupuncture meridians that can really highly focus on that. Balancing it, regulating it. And we always suggest different lifestyle practices too, to do as far as diet, exercises, practices, meditations, things like that. Outside of the office to help kind of counteract that decline and support your health in the best way.
Natalie: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's fantastic. I think it's helped me quite a lot in the last year and a half. One, with just helping me sleep better as my body starts to transition because I just turned 48. So I'm starting to, you know, gradually reach that point too. Also, just going back to school, I came in to see you shortly thereafter, and that's been helping me keep my shit together for the most part.
I mean, I know you've seen me in some rare forms, come in and out of the office sometimes. But yeah, so it's been really helpful, and I know that. And for digestion, too, because I think that takes a hit a little bit, too, during those hormonal shifts. Going back a little bit further, do you mind sharing what the idea of meridians are for anybody that's not familiar?
Dr. Cassie: Oh, yeah. I wish I had like a little– we have a little chart that you've seen at the office a bunch of times because it's interesting because of the acupuncture meridian. So basically you have 12 primary meridians that run from head to toe. A meridian, it looks like a line that goes down. All of the meridians are bilateral.
So they're on both sides of the body. And within these meridians, we have different acupuncture points that help the body achieve different kinds of functions. And what acupuncture is doing essentially at its core, but at a very high level is that it's regulating your nervous system. So taking from that sympathetic, the fight-or-flight down to the parasympathetic.
And in that state, that's where the body can start to heal and repair. So for each person we're depending on what, you know, if they are expressing symptoms or if they are in a certain stage of life or something has happened like emotionally or physically. Our job as a doctor of Chinese medicine is to almost be like a detective, and we assess the body. We feel your radial pulse, we look at your tongue.
I myself like to press and kind of palpate through these different channels and meridians to assess, you know, which points will help your body get back into balance, to start to heal from whatever is going on or we want to focus and work on.
Natalie: I love it. I love it. It's my favorite thing in the world. And especially coming into the Sage Haven too, because it's just so calming and relaxing.
And I know that you just celebrated your third year there, right? In your practice. So yeah, we should note that and congratulate you on that. Cause you're creating a beautiful healing space, that also… I saw that you're also offering sound bath healing classes. Do you want to share a little bit more about that? Because are you also incorporating acupuncture into these?
Dr. Cassie: Yes. Yeah. So I would love to share about that. As you know, Natalie, we just moved into a new office space this past October from our old suite. And in this office space, my goal was to have a space where we could have just enough room and space for gatherings and events and workshops and things like that.
So we have done a few events and workshops so far. We had our first acupuncture and sound healing event in June, we have our next coming up at the end of this month, which was such a hit. It was so beautiful. It was an evening where we got together. The first event in June. We had about 15 of us that got together. We did this as a Full Moon sound healing and acupuncture event.
Natalie: Beautiful.
Dr. Cassie: Everyone sharing their intention for the evening and we wrote it down on a little piece of paper, either something that we are calling in or something that we were letting go of. And then if you're calling it in, we crumbled it up in a little ball, put it in the sound bowls, that was set when the sound was playing, or you ripped it up and put it in whichever ones you wanted to just start the evening like that.
And then, I went around, everyone was laying down really comfortably in their own little, like, yoga mat with their blankets. And I went around and provided acupuncture treatments for everyone. I was doing a relatively simple treatment, but the intention was to ground and connect you with the earth and nature, but also uplift, you know, you to connect with the Full Moon's energy and to harness and strengthen your own intuition.
Natalie: Oh my gosh.
Dr. Cassie: Acupuncture is so cool because there's so many layers to what we can do with treatment. Like, yes, we can help, you know, if you rolled your ankle, we can help your sprained ankle. We'll fix that. Easy peasy. Yes. But also we can do deeper things like help you connect with your intuition, your Higher Self to help resolve some, you know, maybe past traumas or an emotional imbalance that we're working on.
So doing something like acupuncture points to connect with the Full Moon's energy was like, something that was so beautiful and so powerful for so many that joined us.
Natalie: Oh my gosh, that sounds incredible. Well, I bet too, because there's something to say too about the AcuNap because you definitely do transcend into a different, different place during those AcuNaps.
You come out and you're like, where the fuck am I? What just happened?
Dr. Cassie: It's so funny. We actually have a doctor on our team. I'm pretty sure you've met Dr. Gianna. Yeah. But she actually got into acupuncture and Chinese medicine because she worked front desk. Well, she studied psychology in her undergrad and she was working front desk in an acupuncture clinic.
She's from New Jersey too, but you would watch. She would watch the clients come in, like, you know, stressed out over their feelings, you know, showing up, whatever they need to go. Yes. Like just coming on in, like, ah, going into their appointment and just walking out. And her brain was like, what is happening back there? So much that she decided to go to school, do the four year degree.
Natalie: Oh my God. I love that story. I love that story. But it's so true. I walk out and I can't function really. I can't, you know, whomever's sitting at the desk, whether it's you or one of the other doctors who's like checking me out. It's like, how do you feel?
How are you doing? I'm like, My mouth barely moves. I can't get anything out. It might be something unrecognizable or a grunt, like, or just a nod, you know, slow nod, like, yeah, good shit back there. That's some good shit. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. That's so, I love that story. I was going to touch on the– oh, it was just, I remember when I lived on the central coast, there was a yoga studio I would go to regularly. And she had a good friend who was an acupuncturist and that's where I would go for acupuncture, but the two of them would connect and create some, I think it was like a really gentle yin yoga class.
And then they would go into Shavasana and Jenny was her name, Jenny Doll. And she would then place acupuncture needles on certain points for people to go into a deeper Shavasana. And it was really, really cool. It was a big hit for the studio. Oh, yeah, that's something that definitely, you know, we, I'm sure we will be facilitating things like that at Sage Haven, just such a good, beautiful way to bring people together and to connect and also, like, introduce them, you know, someone who might not have tried acupuncture or might be curious, something that I noticed having a private practice for the last three years because our sessions are individualized, right?
You know, and having a practice where I work with people one on one, something that I really was hearing so much of, like, probably the year before we moved was just clients saying, hey, you know, I'm looking for… I asked him how they're doing emotionally, like what's going on in their environment. And I kept hearing a lot of like, you know, I just wish I had more girlfriends or just friends in general who are in a wellness space like me. You know, had maybe moved here from a new city, just like you did. And, you know, wanting to connect with others who are on the same page as you wanting to make healthy choices and do things that are active and within the wellness space.
And in my brain, I'm thinking, I'm like, I know somebody in the next room who would like to go on a wellness walk with you or like somebody who would go to that class with you. And I'm like, huh. So that was kind of where the idea of like, hosting these events and gatherings and get togethers all really started like, brewing.
Natalie: Yeah. I love it. You're totally right. People do, and that's kind of one of the reasons why I started my wellness walks too for the North of 40 Club.
Switching gears a little bit, or maybe it's not changing gears so much, but I want to have you share more about the cosmetic side of acupuncture, the cosmetic acupuncture work that you're doing too, which is what I found you for. Nor not necessarily “found you for”, but it popped up on my Instagram, but you were offering it. And I thought that's intriguing. I've never done that before. I've kind of heard a little bit about it, but I'm going to go check it out. So that is what I initially went in to see you for, but it's more than– I'm going to have you explain it.
Dr. Cassie: Yes. I love talking about cosmetic acupuncture. The biggest barrier to people receiving care and receiving cosmetic acupuncture is that they don't know about it and they don't understand it. Fair enough. Same thing with acupuncture in general, but with cosmetic acupuncture and the holistic aesthetics, it is a really wonderful option for women who are wanting to take a natural approach to their beauty and their aesthetics.
Cosmetic acupuncture is not something that is like, you know, Botox or more invasive procedures and things like this. Cosmetic acupuncture. Yes, you still look like yourself, but you look like the best version of yourself where you look like, refreshed, got eight or nine hours of sleep, like no sodium, like where it's like you just wake up and everything is fresh and bright and open and lifted.
Yeah, so we can definitely make improvements with fine lines, wrinkles, fluid retention, all these things, as you know. But for others who are listening to this on here in our cosmetic acupuncture sessions, we do microcurrent therapy. We always start with that, which lifts and activates the facial muscles and invigorates them.
Then we do facial gua sha, which helps with lymphatic drainage, any fluid retention puffiness. It actually helps kind of release the fascia around the head, face and neck too, which is so important. Then we do body acupuncture points. Typically, these points are focusing on sending circulation and blood flow up into the head, face and neck, but also grounding and relaxing the nervous system at the same time.
And then we do our facial points and with these essentially, with facial acupuncture, we will go into different muscle bellies that you have here to lift and activate for here, for the lower part of the face.
And then for the upper part of the face, typically relaxing these muscles, which are always spicy ones, as you know, the core gets so tight. But this is what causes those kinds of, 11 lines that, you know, many of us are concerned about. And then also we want to flatten and relax, but also lift for this area. So all of the treatments are individualized to what's going on with your internal health as well.
You know, whether you're looking for support with digestion, we can help you with this too. Or if it is, you know, transitioning into menopause and stages like that, or if you're having, you know, just have really irregular, painful, uncomfortable cycles, we can help with that too. And of course, you know, supporting your internal health and making sure everything is balanced and regulated within your internal systems will show up in your complexion, your face, energy, everything.
Natalie: Yeah, I think it's so fascinating. I think it's great. And I remember coming in too, for my initial session or consult with you. And I was like, “Yeah, I'm sold.” I mean, just looking at your face to like, I think that, you know, because you've been doing it obviously. Can I get my complexion like Dr. Cassie's? If that's what it does, then sign me up.
But I really do enjoy the micro current and even the micro– is that what's called micro current. And then the micro needling is great too. And I feel, and you know, it looks great afterwards, but that was something I was fascinated with because, you know, I do want to do that prior to even looking into Botox or something along those lines, not to say that I never will, but that's, you know, what I choose to do at this point.
But I think it's fantastic. And I was just talking with a friend of mine about it earlier. So I'm going to send her your way to come in and try that before.
Dr. Cassie: Oh, like a big piece of advice that one of my cosmetic acupuncture mentors gave me was, you know, to encourage clients to try all of these natural therapies before going to the route of Botox and threads and fillers and lifts and all the other kinds of things.
She says specifically with Botox, you will have to get more of it more often. Like those with baby Botox in their twenties. And I did get Botox one time when I was like 26. I was when I was, like, working in nightlife and my friends were doing it.
And I was like, I'm going to freeze my face. And I got it on my forehead and I felt like I looked weird. And it didn't, it just like, didn't resonate with me, sit well. And I was actually grateful that I had that experience because I can, you know, I can be someone who can honestly say, yeah, I was curious about it at the time.
I thought it would be an option. I did, you know, have that done. And then looking back, I'm like, I'm so glad that happened because I had that realization and it just propelled me to dive into the cosmetic acupuncture, the holistic, all the therapies that I do today. That's a really good point. And it does make sense.
Natalie: And like I said, it's something I had tried to avoid, and will try to avoid for as long as I can. And I think the acupuncture is doing great things and I love the micro needling and all of it is just relaxing. So, you know, anything I can do to feel like I'm being pampered and relaxed. I'll do it.
Dr. Cassie: Love it, yeah!
Natalie: This is fantastic. Before we go, is there anything else that we didn't cover that you would like to share in regards to Sage Haven or acupuncture in general? That or even like a tip for anybody who's curious about acupuncture, what could they maybe look for in an acupuncturist if they're not in the San Diego area?
Dr. Cassie: Yeah. I would say for anyone who is listening and, you know, intrigued, wanting to try acupuncture, if you are looking to find a provider near you, a few things I would look at. I would look, of course, if there are any like, you know, reviews of them or their practice or everything like that, number one. Number two, I would look for someone who will do a very thorough consultation with you before any treatment. You know this with us at our practice, we do a detailed consultation about your health history, physical exam, all the things prior to treating you, because we want to know exactly what's happening and come up with the right plan for you before we start.
You look for someone who's going to be organized, who's going to prescribe you a care plan based upon your own individual goals.
Natalie: Yeah. That's great.
Dr. Cassie: Practices that, you know, have people come in and say, okay, this is what's going on, okay great, here's your treatment. And then just kind of like send you off.
And I feel like that's really not taking the time to hear and understand you and come up with something that will meet your health needs. Health, aesthetic, whatever it is that your goals are.
Natalie: That's really good. That is a really good point and a really important factor, I think too. And even when I was receiving acupuncture care up North, my acupuncturist was so great.
And just hearing, asking me when I came in like, how's your body feeling? And just kind of listen to what's going on. And then she would you know, say, okay, well, let's start here or let's do this today. Or, you know, let's try cupping or whatever it is that my body was needing. And yeah.
And you did the same thing when I first came in for the consultation, just listened to me ramble off on all of the things that were going on with my body, my wellbeing and my health history and, and coming up with a great plan, which I believe it was a good three month plan to start with, a three to six month plan to start with.
And then, continuing on with some maintenance and stuff. So yeah, those are really good, really good points. And I can't say enough about acupuncture in general, but also about, Sage Haven. So if anybody in the San Diego area is curious, certainly go out and try it. So thank you so much for joining me, even after all the tech baloney, we made it.
Dr. Cassie: We got it. We made it. That's the important part. Thank you so much for having me on here and taking the time to chat today. This was so fun and hopefully so helpful for those who are wanting to learn more about any of the broad areas that we talked about.
Natalie: Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much.
Dr. Cassie: Of course. You are so welcome. Thank you for having me.
